TA51, Response 2, Karl Jaspers Forum

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A few remarks in response to Mr. Rifat's comments:

Mr. Rifat reacted to a comment about Nietzsche reading and writing at about three years of age. Mr. Rifat says he – Rifat -- started school at the age 8. Though the relevance to N teaching himself to read and write is unclear; I'd like to ask if he has in mind a parochial school avoided and eventually attended? The answer might help me see the connection. (I started at age four in a one-room country public school but that does not seem relevant either except for interesting comparisons, and to place myself in a position for Mr. Rifat to judge me inhibited by a Protestant-monotheistic concept. However in that public school there was no religious teaching done except maybe by ethical behavior, not excluding irreligious influence too through immoral behavior of teachers and peers).

Mr. Rifat's reminder to readers about the persecutions of earlier Americans could be helpful. Hopefully the reminder does not imply I've insensitivity toward some persons. It's hard to write anything about history without starting somewhere and in this case the chosen starting point was around the current power structure in this country, the relevance of its religious movements, and the application of the phenomenological method of psychopathology to … some ... religious experiences.

It would be well though to remind also that the Book of Mormon mentioned in TA51 is a presumed inspired, but not by me, account of the history of those more native to the area -- something that cannot be verified nor refuted by prehistory, that is, recorded data, written or other artifact.

Also it seems there might be an overabundance of romanticism or embellishing of native American freedom, even an assumed preserved racial purity, for, more cross breeding was taking place than one might normally think whether in the east or the west of the continent. My father told me I had Indian lineage, something my family does not flaunt nor ignore for it means nothing more than something except if one might claim a share of U.S. Government settlement funds made with American Indians like the Mescalaro Apaches.

I was told and have read that here in New Mexico the residents in and about Cochillo were living peacefully with the Warm Springs Apaches nearby and that there was some intermingling. Victorio led the Warm Springs Apaches; does that name suggest anything? He had a son named Washington; does that suggest anything? In the Southwest there were the Mestizos — mixed blood, Criolles -- mixed blood, and Indio -- mixed blood. That seems to be the human sort of thing going on in this country, and the Indian conflicts were not always discussions about what to wear for identification purposes, unless maybe what does or does not intimidate the enemy.

Mr. Rifat throws in the word Protestant and Monotheists perhaps suggesting that it has something to do with the persecution of some of mankind -- but I might have misunderstood -- surely. Is he saying it would have been better under New Spain's, or the Northwestern Russian's potential Invaders?

The history of mankind starts with evidence. Humankind's history starts with Archaeological data, and symbols and signs -- sharable with the community. It does require some balanced interpretation, some application of self-understanding not influenced too much by intoxicating ideas and even less by chemicals, vapors, or liquids. For instance, I doubt if Mr. Rifat would appear in the Boston area less attired than the situation of mosquitoes, sun, or cold might call for, unless ... influenced ... unduly (Here I have in mind the large percentage of patients at the Northwest Indiana Alcoholism Clinic who suffered from pneumonia being somewhat insensitive to winter's cold).

Even in the most favorable climates -- on the issue of less rather than more clothing -- a gourd for some men might be less embarrassing at times. Besides one always has the freedom to decide these issues and of course pay the consequences, but the community of humankind usually has more important matters than the issues of the interests to dirty old men who no longer seek to control their youthful urges now seek to be controlled by such memories or images. Such urges were and are as controlled or remembered and mourned by attackers, crossed breeds, and even the religious recluse (as a matter of interest, perhaps exclusive, monastic life offers occasion for the development and refinement of animated thoughts as a less responsible way of life than productive married and community living).

I thank Mr. Rifat for his comments, which had the affect of furthering the dialogue effort to TA51.

Back Main	TOWARD A MEANINGFUL DIALOGUE by Glenn C Wood , 3 Jul 2002, posted 9 July 2002 TA 51, Response 2 (to C3 by Rifat)	PDF file
Site map	email me. A few remarks in response to Mr. Rifat's comments: Mr. Rifat reacted to a comment about Nietzsche reading and writing at about three years of age. Mr. Rifat says he – Rifat -- started school at the age 8. Though the relevance to N teaching himself to read and write is unclear; I'd like to ask if he has in mind a parochial school avoided and eventually attended? The answer might help me see the connection. (I started at age four in a one-room country public school but that does not seem relevant either except for interesting comparisons, and to place myself in a position for Mr. Rifat to judge me inhibited by a Protestant-monotheistic concept. However in that public school there was no religious teaching done except maybe by ethical behavior, not excluding irreligious influence too through immoral behavior of teachers and peers). Mr. Rifat's reminder to readers about the persecutions of earlier Americans could be helpful. Hopefully the reminder does not imply I've insensitivity toward some persons. It's hard to write anything about history without starting somewhere and in this case the chosen starting point was around the current power structure in this country, the relevance of its religious movements, and the application of the phenomenological method of psychopathology to … some ... religious experiences. It would be well though to remind also that the Book of Mormon mentioned in TA51 is a presumed inspired, but not by me, account of the history of those more native to the area -- something that cannot be verified nor refuted by prehistory, that is, recorded data, written or other artifact. Also it seems there might be an overabundance of romanticism or embellishing of native American freedom, even an assumed preserved racial purity, for, more cross breeding was taking place than one might normally think whether in the east or the west of the continent. My father told me I had Indian lineage, something my family does not flaunt nor ignore for it means nothing more than something except if one might claim a share of U.S. Government settlement funds made with American Indians like the Mescalaro Apaches. I was told and have read that here in New Mexico the residents in and about Cochillo were living peacefully with the Warm Springs Apaches nearby and that there was some intermingling. Victorio led the Warm Springs Apaches; does that name suggest anything? He had a son named Washington; does that suggest anything? In the Southwest there were the Mestizos — mixed blood, Criolles -- mixed blood, and Indio -- mixed blood. That seems to be the human sort of thing going on in this country, and the Indian conflicts were not always discussions about what to wear for identification purposes, unless maybe what does or does not intimidate the enemy. Mr. Rifat throws in the word Protestant and Monotheists perhaps suggesting that it has something to do with the persecution of some of mankind -- but I might have misunderstood -- surely. Is he saying it would have been better under New Spain's, or the Northwestern Russian's potential Invaders? The history of mankind starts with evidence. Humankind's history starts with Archaeological data, and symbols and signs -- sharable with the community. It does require some balanced interpretation, some application of self-understanding not influenced too much by intoxicating ideas and even less by chemicals, vapors, or liquids. For instance, I doubt if Mr. Rifat would appear in the Boston area less attired than the situation of mosquitoes, sun, or cold might call for, unless ... influenced ... unduly (Here I have in mind the large percentage of patients at the Northwest Indiana Alcoholism Clinic who suffered from pneumonia being somewhat insensitive to winter's cold). Even in the most favorable climates -- on the issue of less rather than more clothing -- a gourd for some men might be less embarrassing at times. Besides one always has the freedom to decide these issues and of course pay the consequences, but the community of humankind usually has more important matters than the issues of the interests to dirty old men who no longer seek to control their youthful urges now seek to be controlled by such memories or images. Such urges were and are as controlled or remembered and mourned by attackers, crossed breeds, and even the religious recluse (as a matter of interest, perhaps exclusive, monastic life offers occasion for the development and refinement of animated thoughts as a less responsible way of life than productive married and community living). I thank Mr. Rifat for his comments, which had the affect of furthering the dialogue effort to TA51.


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